June 10, 2024
Screaming Goats and Sand Trays: Unique Stories of Real-World School Counseling
Send us a text message- we'd love to hear from you!
In the 100th episode of the School for School Counselors podcast, we are all about the colorful and often unexpected world of school counseling with stories from school counselors who are in the trenches every day. One counselor from Kentucky shares about her handmade wooden sand tray, a favorite among her students for its soothing qualities. Another from Georgia uses a screaming goat toy to break the tension and get a laugh out of students during stressful moments. These personal touches not only make their offices a little more welcoming but also offer unique ways to connect with students.
As the conversation unfolds, more counselors chime in with their favorite tools and methods. From a tabletop punching bag in an elementary school to a life-sized cutout of The Rock used for student greetings and school events in Southern California, each story highlights the creativity and personalization that counselors bring to their roles. These stories underline the episode's core message: school counseling isn't just about following guidelines and filling out forms—it's about the real, meaningful interactions that help students navigate their school days.
**********************************
Our goal at School for School Counselors is to help school counselors stay on fire, make huge impacts for students, and catalyze change for our roles through grassroots advocacy and collaboration. Listen to get to know more about us and our mission, feel empowered and inspired, and set yourself up for success in the wonderful world of school counseling.
Hang out in our Facebook group
Jump in, ask questions, share your ideas and become a part of the most empowering school counseling group on the planet! (Join us to see if we're right.)
Join the School for School Counselors Mastermind
The Mastermind is packed with all the things your grad program never taught you IN ADDITION TO unparalleled support and consultation. No more feeling alone, invisible, unappreciated, or like you just don't know what to do next. We've got you!
Did someone share this podcast with you? Be sure to subscribe for all the new episodes!!
Chapters
00:00 - Celebrating 100 Episodes
08:45 - Struggles, Support, and Self-Care
18:41 - Data-Driven School Counseling Struggles
31:12 - School Counseling
39:57 - School Counselors Mastermind Community Benefits
50:22 - Mastermind School Counselors Podcast Invitation
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.119 --> 00:00:04.331
Hey there, school counselor, welcome back to the School for School Counselors podcast.
00:00:04.331 --> 00:00:15.070
I'm your host, steph Johnson, glad to be back here with you for the 100th episode of the School for School Counselors podcast, and this is huge.
00:00:15.070 --> 00:00:36.127
You'll hear me say this again later in the podcast episode, but I never in my wildest dreams imagined we would still be going and going this strong, this far into the podcast and I have you to thank for that, our listeners in the podcast world and I just can't wait to jump into this very special episode.
00:00:36.127 --> 00:00:46.213
For this 100th episode, I invited members of my School for School Counselors mastermind to come cuss and discuss all things school counseling.
00:00:46.213 --> 00:00:50.247
We are going to dive into some really hot topic issues.
00:00:50.247 --> 00:01:08.170
No holds barred, nothing held back, and you're going to hear really some great insights, some great perspectives on our work and we'll call out a few of the elephants in the room, a few of the things that nobody else really seems to be talking about but we think are really big deal.
00:01:08.170 --> 00:01:18.027
So, without further ado, I'm going to step back and jump into the recording that I made with my masterminders just a few short days ago.
00:01:18.027 --> 00:01:19.230
I hope you enjoy.
00:01:24.561 --> 00:01:38.266
All right, I got my mastermind friends here with me in the Zoom room and we are here to celebrate the 100th episode of the School for School Counselors podcast, which is crazy, because I never, ever, thought we would be at 100 episodes.
00:01:38.266 --> 00:01:43.468
In the back of my mind, I always just thought it might be maybe 10 or 20, and then it would peter out.
00:01:43.468 --> 00:01:55.352
But here we are going strong, and I think it's because of the amazing people that are in the Zoom room with me right now and all the other masterminders that we have in our community, as well as all of you in our Facebook group.
00:01:55.352 --> 00:02:05.120
It's just amazing what happens when we come together, when we collaborate, when we consult and when we put our brains together for the best outcomes for our students.
00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:06.727
So I'm super excited about this.
00:02:06.828 --> 00:02:14.912
I want to see what's on our masterminders' minds this morning as we jump into summer and getting ready for the next school year.
00:02:14.912 --> 00:02:17.870
So I'm going to let my folks introduce themselves.
00:02:17.870 --> 00:02:20.120
You guys, why don't you introduce yourselves to everybody?
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:26.800
Tell us a little bit about what you do and what is your favorite item in your school counseling office.
00:02:28.143 --> 00:02:29.164
Hey, I'm Brooke.
00:02:29.164 --> 00:02:35.194
I'm a Kentucky school counselor at a K-8 Catholic school.
00:02:35.194 --> 00:02:37.002
Absolutely love it.
00:02:37.002 --> 00:02:51.907
My favorite item in my school counseling office is probably a handmade counseling office is probably a handmade wooden sand tray and toolkit that my dad made me when I got my job.
00:02:51.907 --> 00:02:52.508
That's probably my favorite.
00:02:52.508 --> 00:02:52.889
The kids love it.
00:02:52.889 --> 00:02:56.943
I put kinetic sand in there and they can dig and come through it to their heart's content.
00:02:56.943 --> 00:02:58.586
I love that.
00:03:00.147 --> 00:03:00.889
I'm Susan.
00:03:00.889 --> 00:03:10.312
I am a pre-K through fifth grade school counselor in Georgia and my favorite item that I have is a screaming goat.
00:03:10.312 --> 00:03:18.105
It is a little toy you press when you're upset and you're mad and it breaks the tension.
00:03:18.105 --> 00:03:22.730
Sometimes with kids it makes them laugh when they're so angry and upset.
00:03:22.730 --> 00:03:24.985
It's just so much fun to use.
00:03:26.467 --> 00:03:27.670
Hi, I'm Diane.
00:03:27.670 --> 00:03:41.193
I'm a elementary school counselor, serving grades K through five, and my favorite item is a tabletop punching bag that the kids all love to punch, especially when they're feeling angry or frustrated.
00:03:41.193 --> 00:03:49.137
And then, when the teachers find out about it, they'll usually say, hey, can so-and-so come to your office and punch your punching bag for a few minutes?
00:03:49.137 --> 00:03:50.381
So it's very popular.
00:03:51.723 --> 00:03:54.027
This is Latonya in Virginia.
00:03:54.027 --> 00:03:56.372
I am nine through 12 counselor.
00:03:56.372 --> 00:03:57.653
Absolutely love it.
00:03:57.653 --> 00:03:59.143
Go back for the crazy every day.
00:03:59.143 --> 00:04:02.310
My favorite thing in my office is probably my sofa.
00:04:02.310 --> 00:04:11.661
I have a blanket and pillows because just sometimes everybody may just need that place instead of sitting in a chair, just to come and relax and digress.
00:04:11.661 --> 00:04:15.030
I've actually had some kids take naps on it because they just couldn't function.
00:04:15.030 --> 00:04:18.107
So that would have to say that's my favorite thing in my office.
00:04:19.773 --> 00:04:47.057
My name is Crystal and I am a counselor in Texas, and this will be my first year as a school counselor on an all pre-K campus and I'm looking forward to listen and learn about all the great items that are in your offices qualified behavioral health provider for a mental health clinic in my area and I'm very new to it.
00:04:54.040 --> 00:05:00.899
I will be working with primary level students and probably doing a lot of play therapy and I think I would see my favorite item in my office as probably being puppet that's mine.
00:05:00.899 --> 00:05:01.961
Good morning everybody.
00:05:01.961 --> 00:05:03.502
My name is Noemi Alvarado.
00:05:03.502 --> 00:05:24.077
I am an elementary school counselor in Southern California and my favorite item is I have a huge cutout of the Rock and he's my favorite because we have dressed him up, you know, in a graduation gown and put him outside during college career days.
00:05:24.077 --> 00:05:27.100
We put signs on him welcoming students.
00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:27.882
Good morning.
00:05:28.223 --> 00:05:34.444
We sit him right outside of our office and kids will walk through and they'll say hi to the Rock.
00:05:34.444 --> 00:05:35.065
They love it.
00:05:35.065 --> 00:05:37.290
Adults have come and taken selfies.
00:05:37.290 --> 00:05:40.189
Staff from the district have come and taken selfies with the Rock.
00:05:40.189 --> 00:05:44.925
We've taken him out to like our kids games and he's part of the audience.
00:05:44.925 --> 00:05:46.920
So kids absolutely love it.
00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:47.802
Drives them crazy.
00:05:47.802 --> 00:05:51.232
When he's not outside of our office they're always asking like where's the rock?
00:05:51.232 --> 00:05:52.041
Where did he go?
00:05:52.041 --> 00:05:56.012
So that's my favorite item in my school counseling office.
00:05:56.896 --> 00:05:57.817
That's hilarious.
00:05:57.817 --> 00:06:03.339
I could just imagine you guys carrying that thing around campus or loaded up in the car to take it places.
00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:06.141
That cracks me up For sure.
00:06:06.141 --> 00:06:06.824
It's hilarious.
00:06:06.824 --> 00:06:09.151
People think it's funny, the kids think it's funny.
00:06:09.151 --> 00:06:19.711
I'm thinking I'm going to have to purchase a new one, because he's been there for quite a while now, for a couple of years, and he's looking a little folded up and defeated lately.
00:06:19.711 --> 00:06:25.891
But I'm trying to figure out what cut out of what random famous person I should purchase next.
00:06:25.891 --> 00:06:26.752
This one was a gift.
00:06:26.752 --> 00:06:30.588
I just took it to work and it was a hit.
00:06:30.588 --> 00:06:32.012
That's so funny.
00:06:32.012 --> 00:06:33.165
It just goes to show too.
00:06:33.206 --> 00:06:40.091
You know, as we're talking about this, no one ever expected you to say I have a life-size cutout of the rock and that's my favorite school counseling tool.
00:06:40.091 --> 00:06:46.793
You don't see that make the lists or be posted in the articles, but that's true to your campus and it's so fun to hear that kind of stuff.
00:06:46.793 --> 00:07:04.615
I think that's what I love about our group so much is that we hear and see the real stuff right, Not just the generic, whatever everybody talks about all the time, kind of things, but we're talking about real world school counseling and I just think that's amazing and the opportunity to share.
00:07:04.615 --> 00:07:09.348
I'm thinking right now what kind of cutout do I need to get for my campus.
00:07:09.348 --> 00:07:11.281
I'm already thinking about this for the fall.
00:07:12.644 --> 00:07:41.129
So we talk a lot, y'all, about real world school counseling models versus kind of the ideal model of a school counseling program and how frustrating that can be for school counselors along the way, because we're trained to try to build these perfect world ASCA aligned programs and then we get into the reality on our campuses and we find out it's not as easy as we thought it was going to be and sometimes that feels really frustrating.
00:07:41.129 --> 00:07:49.607
But I'm interested to know, as you see it, can you rate the state of school counseling according to the ASCA national model?
00:07:49.607 --> 00:07:56.651
So what I mean by that is how well as a whole is our industry implementing the national model, or how realistic do you feel it is?
00:07:56.651 --> 00:08:03.728
One through 10, just shout out a number at me Four five, four, three.
00:08:04.249 --> 00:08:08.894
Four, four, five, five, four, three, probably a four.
00:08:08.894 --> 00:08:18.569
All right, Halfway to maybe not quite halfway is what I'm hearing, and definitely I think I feel the same way.
00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:26.850
I think that the national model is a great goal to strive for, but I do think that there are some pitfalls along the way.
00:08:26.850 --> 00:08:39.414
I think it's very difficult to master and I think that we have a lot of school counseling programs that have not been given the foundations to be able to meet what is being expected of school counselors.
00:08:39.414 --> 00:08:45.669
So my next question is a little bit more personal, but have you ever had a time when you felt like dang?
00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:48.355
If this is what it's supposed to be, I don't know if I can do it.
00:08:49.460 --> 00:08:50.380
This is Latonya.
00:08:50.380 --> 00:09:00.692
I would have to say yes, and it was not until I heard one of your podcasts where the elephant just lifted off of my chest to say OK.
00:09:00.692 --> 00:09:05.076
So I'm not the only one thinking that I'm going crazy, that this is unattainable.
00:09:05.076 --> 00:09:26.394
So it's been able to change my mindset to do what I need to do, and that is going to look different to every campus and every program and even though we're striving for the ideal, to give ourselves grace, to say you're doing your best, as long as you know you're implementing the things that need to be implemented and staying at the core and moral and everything.
00:09:26.394 --> 00:09:27.836
Keep on going.
00:09:29.160 --> 00:09:33.288
This is Myra and I would have to agree with LaTanya 100%.
00:09:33.409 --> 00:09:48.971
This is my third year at an elementary site and I'm learning as I go, but I felt overwhelmed my first year, thinking that I have to do all these things and there was no way I could do all those things and service the needs of my campus.
00:09:48.971 --> 00:09:53.323
There was no way what my students needed was not ASCA aligned.
00:09:53.323 --> 00:09:56.951
So I agree 100% with LaTanya.
00:09:58.456 --> 00:10:05.211
I'm right there with you, latanya and Myra, and I would have to say too, you said this was your third year.
00:10:05.211 --> 00:10:07.341
I'm in my 20-something year.
00:10:07.341 --> 00:10:25.774
And I've told Steph before I wished so badly I'd had this validation and had this viewpoint of all of ASCA a long time ago, to be able to give myself that grace a long time ago and be okay with it.
00:10:25.774 --> 00:10:28.067
So yes, thank you, Stephanie.
00:10:28.942 --> 00:10:31.190
So I think I'm in a pretty unique position.
00:10:31.190 --> 00:11:17.485
I did my internship in a public school here and I could tell from my internship which probably had a pretty similar caseload to most of you all pretty similar caseload to most of you all I think we had eight to 900 kids, well over the ASCA recommended 250 to one ratio and I could tell when my mentor was busting his behind for months doing testing and 504 stuff, I was like I don't know how he's doing as well as he was in serving the kids when he's expected and all the counselors in the district were expected to do all of these extra things that were not ASCA aligned duties.
00:11:17.485 --> 00:11:33.948
Now in my job, which is probably about as close as you can get to the ideal population and caseload, size and job expectations, to provide an ASCA-aligned program, it's still hard.
00:11:33.948 --> 00:12:00.120
It is still hard with 200 kids and no testing duties to make sure you're able to carve out the time to meet all three domains for every single child across all grade levels, every single day, with parental and community and district input and all of the things.
00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:07.268
It is so overwhelming, even as a counselor coming from an ideal school.
00:12:07.648 --> 00:12:08.288
In my opinion.
00:12:08.288 --> 00:12:08.808
I love it.
00:12:08.808 --> 00:12:10.211
I wouldn't go anywhere else.
00:12:10.211 --> 00:12:13.673
It's still hard to feel like you can't live up to that.
00:12:13.673 --> 00:12:26.600
So I would totally agree with all of you at.
00:12:26.620 --> 00:12:29.607
We've been very lucky that our district did lower our ratios to 250 to one the last couple of years.
00:12:29.607 --> 00:12:30.330
And I completely agree with Brooke.
00:12:30.330 --> 00:12:37.986
I'm one of three counselors on my campus and we applied for RAMP a couple of years ago and we did not get it.
00:12:37.986 --> 00:12:45.767
I remember how difficult it was to not necessarily implement the program.
00:12:45.767 --> 00:12:49.183
We were doing all the things that we needed to get done.
00:12:49.183 --> 00:12:53.738
The amount of paperwork you have to complete was insane.
00:12:53.738 --> 00:13:05.870
We were working over the summer, we were the new year that came, we were working on paperwork for the previous year and the paperwork for that year, and so there was a lot of just overlap.
00:13:05.870 --> 00:13:16.043
It was a lot to do and then when we didn't get it, we felt extremely defeated and it was very difficult to go forward from there.
00:13:16.043 --> 00:13:37.229
That school year it was really hard and I remember listening to one of the podcasts for School for School Counselors and you talked about how, just because we don't have that ramp recognition doesn't mean we don't have a great program, and that just really resonated with me.
00:13:37.229 --> 00:13:56.985
It really helped me move forward because I knew that we were doing a great job and my co-counselors knew that we were doing a great job, but we didn't feel like it because we didn't get that RAP recognition and quite a few of our schools in the district did get it that year.
00:13:56.985 --> 00:14:02.905
And so we're coming in as a new program and we're excited, we wanna do all these things.
00:14:02.905 --> 00:14:06.190
We feel like, oh gosh, rap, that's what we have to do.
00:14:06.190 --> 00:14:26.312
And it really took a toll, I think, on our mental health and even just on our lives outside of work, where we weren't really focusing our attention on our families and getting that time that we needed to relax and rest to be able to be fully functional at an elementary school campus.
00:14:26.312 --> 00:14:36.410
We always credit our significant others and our families for really standing behind us through that process, because we know that it took so much from us.
00:14:36.410 --> 00:14:44.351
And, with that said, we are actually planning on submitting our RAMP application this coming October.
00:14:45.254 --> 00:14:48.341
But we are in a whole different mindset.
00:14:48.341 --> 00:15:25.605
I would say we have, we are doing our paperwork, we've done it throughout the year and all three of us are like what, when we get there starting the school year, if that is just something that's taking too much attention from our students at that moment, from our families, then it's just something that it's not worth it for us to do at that moment and we're okay not doing it and putting that aside and moving forward with our new school year and making sure that we're 100% there for our students and that we're there for our families, that we are there for ourselves as well.
00:15:25.605 --> 00:15:34.687
I love that you bring up a really interesting point, which is you strive and you work and you toil away and you're trying to build these programs.
00:15:34.687 --> 00:15:41.327
I know on my end at my campus, from time to time I'll get super motivated and sit down and think maybe we can make this work.
00:15:42.000 --> 00:16:04.700
And just the sheer amount of time that it takes to walk through all the documentation, all the paperwork, to figure out what would be required, and I always have the thought in the back of my mind I could be out with kids right now, I could be serving students right now, instead of shuffling through this paperwork in place.
00:16:04.721 --> 00:16:27.465
And this is definitely not meant to dog any programs or say we shouldn't be striving towards those goals, but there is a piece of that I think that you've touched on, which is it's really difficult to get all of those things done, get all those ducks in a row and get them out the door, while still trying to keep things running on your campus and I think that's true for school counselors in general too with these national models, do you guys remember the Wile E Coyote cartoons?
00:16:27.465 --> 00:16:33.947
And he would inevitably run off the cliff and he was trying to climb the air right to get back up to the top and it would never, ever worked.
00:16:33.947 --> 00:16:37.101
I think a lot of times that's how we feel in our programs.
00:16:37.101 --> 00:16:43.130
We feel like we're just trying to climb the air to get where we're supposed to be and we know deep down in our hearts we're not going to get there.
00:16:43.130 --> 00:16:46.696
So what do you do to take care of yourselves in the meantime?
00:16:46.696 --> 00:16:50.510
How do you maintain your perspective in your day-to-day work?
00:16:50.510 --> 00:16:52.046
How do you take care of yourself during?
00:16:52.066 --> 00:16:52.528
your workday.
00:16:52.528 --> 00:16:59.153
I think being intentional about finding a community that gets it is very important.
00:16:59.153 --> 00:17:06.413
A lot of school counselors are the sole mental health professional in their building.
00:17:06.413 --> 00:17:33.192
I am the sole mental health professional in my building and, while it would appear looking from the outside in that it would make me feel lonely, because I am intentional about building relationships with other counselors in our district, with other in our diocese, other counselors here in the Mastermind, it's not lonely anymore.
00:17:33.192 --> 00:18:01.446
It might have started out that way, but just having people who understand and who can encourage you when you are having those feelings is more beneficial than just about I don't want to say all forms of self-care, but it is probably one of the highest for me Just being able to bounce ideas back and forth off of people who have been there and have either failed at it or succeeded at it, and you can learn from what they did.
00:18:02.741 --> 00:18:33.212
And we're very thankful for our consultation and chats, because I know a lot of times if I'm struggling with something, I'll be like, oh good, I can bring this up on Tuesday and get ideas from all of you, because I am also the only counselor in my building and a lot of times, even though my past field supervisor is available, he's not available because he's always so busy, and so if I'm knowing that I have a place to come where we can vent and talk through things is really, really helpful At least it is for me.
00:18:35.580 --> 00:18:42.334
One thing, just on a practical day to day, when I'm feeling discouraged, that I'm trying to do.
00:18:42.334 --> 00:18:51.615
I don't always do it, but I can be pretty hard on myself and focused on what I need to get done or haven't gotten done and all of that.
00:18:51.615 --> 00:19:00.181
It's that I'm trying to just take three to five minutes to write down what I did do today and what I did accomplish today.
00:19:00.181 --> 00:19:03.828
I did talk with that student and help them through something.
00:19:03.828 --> 00:19:05.854
I did talk with that parent.
00:19:06.020 --> 00:19:30.163
I did talk to that teacher, so I did do a lot and give myself a little credit encouragement for that, and then the next things will come and it'll be okay and that helps me to just to not stay as overwhelmed as I typically can be stay as overwhelmed as I typically can be.
00:19:30.182 --> 00:19:38.582
I know for me one thing that I do, similar to Susan, is I have a happy file so any like notes of encouragement from teachers or from staff or from kiddos or parents.
00:19:38.582 --> 00:19:58.730
I save those and I put those in a file folder and so on those days that feel really tough or feel really overwhelming or I'm like what am I doing today, I open that file folder and it helps me remember the reasons why I do what I do and why I come into this building day in and day out is because of impacting these lives.
00:19:58.730 --> 00:20:03.352
So it really helps me refocus and remember why I do what I do.
00:20:04.701 --> 00:20:25.423
Just to add to what Shanice says, one of our fifth grade teachers actually has students at the end of the year, write letters to teachers and I always look forward to that day because a lot of them choose me to write to and of course I also keep them and it's always so wonderful to read and for them to say thank you and all that.
00:20:25.423 --> 00:20:34.076
So one thing I like to do, one of my favorite things, is just talking to students randomly being out there.
00:20:34.076 --> 00:20:46.894
When they're out there during lunch, during recess, in the mornings, after school, when I'm feeling very defeated or I'm feeling just in a funk, I will force myself to go out there with them and just to talk to them and greet them.
00:20:46.894 --> 00:20:51.577
And sometimes I'm very honest with my students, I'm very transparent and I'll say you know what guys?
00:20:51.577 --> 00:20:53.880
Miss Noemi is having not a great day.
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:55.481
I'm being a little grouchy today.
00:20:55.481 --> 00:20:59.737
Whatever, and they'll, they always try to make you laugh.
00:20:59.737 --> 00:21:03.288
They're just like they'll be like, Miss Noemi, did you have your coffee this morning?
00:21:03.288 --> 00:21:04.710
Did you have lunch?
00:21:04.710 --> 00:21:06.192
Did you sleep?
00:21:06.192 --> 00:21:07.634
And so it just.
00:21:07.634 --> 00:21:10.798
They crack me up because it just it me.
00:21:10.798 --> 00:21:13.340
It reminds me that they listen when I talk to them.
00:21:13.340 --> 00:21:21.471
They do listen, they're there and they want me to be good, just like I want them to be good.
00:21:21.471 --> 00:21:32.472
So forcing myself to go out there during recess and talking to them, and it just cracks me up and it reminds me that I love my job and I love my kids and I love being out there with them that's what it's all about, right?
00:21:32.472 --> 00:21:35.134
That's why we show up every day is because of kiddos.
00:21:35.134 --> 00:21:44.009
We sure don't show up for the grownups most of the time and we sure don't show up for the paperwork and the responsibilities and all the calendars and the things right.
00:21:44.724 --> 00:21:58.554
Susan was talking earlier about writing things down at the end of the day that you've accomplished, and it really caught my attention because I thought that is a form of data-driven school counseling.
00:21:58.554 --> 00:22:03.931
It may not feel like it often, but that is definitely a form of data-driven school counseling, which is a huge buzz phrase around the school counseling world right now.
00:22:03.931 --> 00:22:06.817
We talk about it a lot over here.
00:22:06.817 --> 00:22:23.700
We have our data cohort running where we're looking at how we're capturing this information, what we're doing with it, how we're sustaining our practice, and so I just am interested to know if anybody wants to share some of their experience with trying to capture data in your school counseling program.
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:26.605
What kinds of information are you trying to capture?
00:22:26.605 --> 00:22:34.670
What are some things that you've tried or what is some validation or maybe some struggles you've had in your data-driven school counseling journey?
00:22:35.992 --> 00:22:37.295
Motivation.
00:22:37.295 --> 00:22:43.511
It's really hard to stay motivated to actually put in my data every day.
00:22:43.511 --> 00:22:52.458
It's very difficult and sometimes it doesn't get done, and that's real right, that's real, that's the real way of the school counseling life.
00:22:53.585 --> 00:23:04.893
Yeah, I think being worried about perfection with it and if I miss or if I forget or I don't write something down oh no, I've messed it all up, I don't need to continue, or what do I do?
00:23:04.893 --> 00:23:14.671
And that's a big problem with me, and maybe a little that has a little ADHD in there with it of trying to keep up with it as part for me to concentrate on it.
00:23:14.671 --> 00:23:15.673
Make it a priority.
00:23:17.115 --> 00:23:20.127
I would definitely agree with Brooke and Susan.
00:23:20.127 --> 00:23:21.290
I like to.
00:23:21.290 --> 00:23:23.777
I'm pretty good at getting the data together.
00:23:23.777 --> 00:23:43.272
I'm pretty good at putting it in each day and it's not each day like every other day but then when it comes down to make the pie graphs or the bar charts, or this is what they knew at the beginning of the small group and this is what they knew at the end of the small group, and this is where they increased and this is where maybe we need to go back and refocus a little bit.
00:23:43.272 --> 00:23:55.314
I get stuck on the perfection because a lot of the admin don't really say exactly what they want and I'll ask what they want and I don't think they know what they want in terms of final product.
00:23:55.484 --> 00:24:02.594
I think that's a trend I'm seeing right now in the education world at large, and we were laughing, I think, in our mastermind group a week or so ago.
00:24:02.594 --> 00:24:11.372
Somebody said I've been in education for 30 years and I feel like this whole data-driven thing is just the flavor of the month and it's going to come and it's going to go.
00:24:11.372 --> 00:24:14.696
And we were serving kiddos just fine before we all started.
00:24:14.696 --> 00:24:21.039
Talking about data all the time Doesn't mean we don't need it, but we seem to be hyper-vigilant about it.
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:28.708
And, katie, what you were just saying about, we're providing the information, but oftentimes our administrators don't even know what data they want to see.
00:24:28.708 --> 00:24:32.477
They just think they need data because that's what they talk about all day long.
00:24:32.477 --> 00:24:40.846
Is anybody else getting that feeling in your school counseling work, where we're constantly talking about capture the data and then you're like, okay, so who wants this?
00:24:42.470 --> 00:24:48.306
So we had the mental health grant and we were able to get the past survey.
00:24:48.306 --> 00:24:52.032
There's one of those ones that you have to do at the beginning, the middle and the end to gauge it.
00:24:52.032 --> 00:24:54.498
So we're sitting there, okay.
00:24:54.498 --> 00:24:55.358
So what does this mean?
00:24:55.358 --> 00:25:01.832
We're doing it, but like, how are we supposed to take this and put it back into our program?
00:25:01.832 --> 00:25:03.395
And nobody had an answer.
00:25:03.395 --> 00:25:09.645
I'm laughing so hard because we even forgot to do it at the end of the year because nobody knows what we're supposed to do with it.
00:25:09.645 --> 00:25:10.734
So it's just okay, we got it.
00:25:10.734 --> 00:25:12.655
We got the money to do this at the end of the year because nobody knows what we're supposed to do with it.
00:25:12.655 --> 00:25:12.983
So it's just OK, we got it.
00:25:12.983 --> 00:25:15.420
We got the money to do this program, but what for?
00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:17.842
So it doesn't help.
00:25:17.922 --> 00:25:27.057
When my school didn't have nobody did data in the surrounding counties, I'm like I have nobody to talk to, but outside people, how am I supposed to do this?
00:25:27.057 --> 00:25:28.692
What am I supposed to do with it?
00:25:28.692 --> 00:25:30.936
I feel like I'm doing the data and I'm keeping it.
00:25:30.936 --> 00:25:31.396
Supposed to do this.
00:25:31.396 --> 00:25:32.258
What am I supposed to do with it?
00:25:32.258 --> 00:25:36.482
I feel like I'm doing the data and I'm keeping it, but not how the norm says it should look and be in bar graphs and charts and all this good stuff.
00:25:36.482 --> 00:25:39.771
So I'm just I'm laughing because I just don't know.
00:25:39.771 --> 00:25:43.465
I'm doing something, but I don't know if I'm doing it according to the data.
00:25:44.827 --> 00:25:48.332
I feel like my admin, specifically, is really good about.
00:25:48.332 --> 00:25:51.575
I don't think she wants any specific data from me.
00:25:51.575 --> 00:25:56.740
She just wants to know that if I make a decision, I can back it up with why I made that decision.
00:25:56.740 --> 00:26:13.111
So if I make a decision about the counseling program and she asks why, she just expects that I have some type of proof to back up or knowledge to say this is why I chose to do what I did, and then she's okay, cool, awesome, we'll support you 100%.
00:26:14.327 --> 00:26:26.596
I don't know why, but every year at the end of the year, when we've collected all our data and we've put it into graphs and all that good stuff, I look at our numbers and I always feel like, oh, that's it.
00:26:26.596 --> 00:26:28.992
I swear I did so much more.
00:26:28.992 --> 00:26:30.893
I swear I saw so many more students.
00:26:30.893 --> 00:26:32.767
I swear I did so much more.
00:26:32.767 --> 00:26:33.548
I swear I saw so many more students.
00:26:33.548 --> 00:26:34.391
I swear I did so many more small groups.
00:26:34.391 --> 00:26:36.095
And then I always have this feeling of dread.
00:26:36.095 --> 00:26:38.160
Do I want to show this to the teachers?
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.126
What are they going to think?
00:26:39.126 --> 00:26:41.071
Are they going to understand?
00:26:41.071 --> 00:26:46.048
Does this really give people what a day of a school counselor looks like?
00:26:46.048 --> 00:26:56.573
Because it doesn't show my emergencies, my crises, it doesn't really break it down, it just says, oh, you saw so many one-on-ones, you did so many small groups, you did so many classroom presentations.
00:26:57.144 --> 00:27:07.990
And I always get this small sense of dread of did I even do well this year when I look at those numbers, because I always feel like, oh, my gosh, that's not enough, I should have done more.
00:27:09.565 --> 00:27:22.054
I think that's a really astute observation and I think you bring up a really good point, because if you're presenting data with no frame of reference to people who don't do what you do.
00:27:22.054 --> 00:27:29.576
Sometimes it can feel like that, and I know what you're talking about because I've been there, I have 100% been there, with my data as well.
00:27:29.576 --> 00:27:39.328
And I think, man, if I present these numbers to my staff and they see, oh, you only did X number of counseling sessions this year, what were you doing the rest of the time?
00:27:39.328 --> 00:27:58.165
Not understanding what it took to make those things happen, the duration of some of those counseling sessions, the content of some of them that needed to be processed by me afterwards, just the chasing students down, trying to find them, to get them in the office, those kinds of things.
00:27:58.165 --> 00:28:04.288
Unless you do this kind of work, it's really difficult to understand what those numbers actually mean.
00:28:04.288 --> 00:28:12.915
And so do you think that maybe we've taken the data initiative a little bit too far in school counseling, or do you think we're headed in the right direction?
00:28:14.726 --> 00:28:16.132
I think we can stop where we are.
00:28:16.132 --> 00:28:17.711
I don't think we need to go any further.
00:28:17.711 --> 00:28:22.256
If we stop where we are, maybe dial it back a teensy bit.
00:28:22.785 --> 00:28:29.637
I wouldn't go any further, though I think districts are more concerned with how many assessments are you doing?
00:00:00.119 --> 00:00:04.331
00:00:04.331 --> 00:00:15.070
00:00:15.070 --> 00:00:36.127
00:00:36.127 --> 00:00:46.213
00:00:46.213 --> 00:00:50.247
00:00:50.247 --> 00:01:08.170
00:01:08.170 --> 00:01:18.027
00:01:18.027 --> 00:01:19.230
00:01:24.561 --> 00:01:38.266
00:01:38.266 --> 00:01:43.468
00:01:43.468 --> 00:01:55.352
00:01:55.352 --> 00:02:05.120
00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:06.727
00:02:06.828 --> 00:02:14.912
00:02:14.912 --> 00:02:17.870
00:02:17.870 --> 00:02:20.120
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:26.800
00:02:28.143 --> 00:02:29.164
00:02:29.164 --> 00:02:35.194
00:02:35.194 --> 00:02:37.002
00:02:37.002 --> 00:02:51.907
00:02:51.907 --> 00:02:52.508
00:02:52.508 --> 00:02:52.889
00:02:52.889 --> 00:02:56.943
00:02:56.943 --> 00:02:58.586
00:03:00.147 --> 00:03:00.889
00:03:00.889 --> 00:03:10.312
00:03:10.312 --> 00:03:18.105
00:03:18.105 --> 00:03:22.730
00:03:22.730 --> 00:03:24.985
00:03:26.467 --> 00:03:27.670
00:03:27.670 --> 00:03:41.193
00:03:41.193 --> 00:03:49.137
00:03:49.137 --> 00:03:50.381
00:03:51.723 --> 00:03:54.027
00:03:54.027 --> 00:03:56.372
00:03:56.372 --> 00:03:57.653
00:03:57.653 --> 00:03:59.143
00:03:59.143 --> 00:04:02.310
00:04:02.310 --> 00:04:11.661
00:04:11.661 --> 00:04:15.030
00:04:15.030 --> 00:04:18.107
00:04:19.773 --> 00:04:47.057
00:04:54.040 --> 00:05:00.899
00:05:00.899 --> 00:05:01.961
00:05:01.961 --> 00:05:03.502
00:05:03.502 --> 00:05:24.077
00:05:24.077 --> 00:05:27.100
00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:27.882
00:05:28.223 --> 00:05:34.444
00:05:34.444 --> 00:05:35.065
00:05:35.065 --> 00:05:37.290
00:05:37.290 --> 00:05:40.189
00:05:40.189 --> 00:05:44.925
00:05:44.925 --> 00:05:46.920
00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:47.802
00:05:47.802 --> 00:05:51.232
00:05:51.232 --> 00:05:52.041
00:05:52.041 --> 00:05:56.012
00:05:56.896 --> 00:05:57.817
00:05:57.817 --> 00:06:03.339
00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:06.141
00:06:06.141 --> 00:06:06.824
00:06:06.824 --> 00:06:09.151
00:06:09.151 --> 00:06:19.711
00:06:19.711 --> 00:06:25.891
00:06:25.891 --> 00:06:26.752
00:06:26.752 --> 00:06:30.588
00:06:30.588 --> 00:06:32.012
00:06:32.012 --> 00:06:33.165
00:06:33.206 --> 00:06:40.091
00:06:40.091 --> 00:06:46.793
00:06:46.793 --> 00:07:04.615
00:07:04.615 --> 00:07:09.348
00:07:09.348 --> 00:07:11.281
00:07:12.644 --> 00:07:41.129
00:07:41.129 --> 00:07:49.607
00:07:49.607 --> 00:07:56.651
00:07:56.651 --> 00:08:03.728
00:08:04.249 --> 00:08:08.894
00:08:08.894 --> 00:08:18.569
00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:26.850
00:08:26.850 --> 00:08:39.414
00:08:39.414 --> 00:08:45.669
00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:48.355
00:08:49.460 --> 00:08:50.380
00:08:50.380 --> 00:09:00.692
00:09:00.692 --> 00:09:05.076
00:09:05.076 --> 00:09:26.394
00:09:26.394 --> 00:09:27.836
00:09:29.160 --> 00:09:33.288
00:09:33.409 --> 00:09:48.971
00:09:48.971 --> 00:09:53.323
00:09:53.323 --> 00:09:56.951
00:09:58.456 --> 00:10:05.211
00:10:05.211 --> 00:10:07.341
00:10:07.341 --> 00:10:25.774
00:10:25.774 --> 00:10:28.067
00:10:28.942 --> 00:10:31.190
00:10:31.190 --> 00:11:17.485
00:11:17.485 --> 00:11:33.948
00:11:33.948 --> 00:12:00.120
00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:07.268
00:12:07.648 --> 00:12:08.288
00:12:08.288 --> 00:12:08.808
00:12:08.808 --> 00:12:10.211
00:12:10.211 --> 00:12:13.673
00:12:13.673 --> 00:12:26.600
00:12:26.620 --> 00:12:29.607
00:12:29.607 --> 00:12:30.330
00:12:30.330 --> 00:12:37.986
00:12:37.986 --> 00:12:45.767
00:12:45.767 --> 00:12:49.183
00:12:49.183 --> 00:12:53.738
00:12:53.738 --> 00:13:05.870
00:13:05.870 --> 00:13:16.043
00:13:16.043 --> 00:13:37.229
00:13:37.229 --> 00:13:56.985
00:13:56.985 --> 00:14:02.905
00:14:02.905 --> 00:14:06.190
00:14:06.190 --> 00:14:26.312
00:14:26.312 --> 00:14:36.410
00:14:36.410 --> 00:14:44.351
00:14:45.254 --> 00:14:48.341
00:14:48.341 --> 00:15:25.605
00:15:25.605 --> 00:15:34.687
00:15:34.687 --> 00:15:41.327
00:15:42.000 --> 00:16:04.700
00:16:04.721 --> 00:16:27.465
00:16:27.465 --> 00:16:33.947
00:16:33.947 --> 00:16:37.101
00:16:37.101 --> 00:16:43.130
00:16:43.130 --> 00:16:46.696
00:16:46.696 --> 00:16:50.510
00:16:50.510 --> 00:16:52.046
00:16:52.066 --> 00:16:52.528
00:16:52.528 --> 00:16:59.153
00:16:59.153 --> 00:17:06.413
00:17:06.413 --> 00:17:33.192
00:17:33.192 --> 00:18:01.446
00:18:02.741 --> 00:18:33.212
00:18:35.580 --> 00:18:42.334
00:18:42.334 --> 00:18:51.615
00:18:51.615 --> 00:19:00.181
00:19:00.181 --> 00:19:03.828
00:19:03.828 --> 00:19:05.854
00:19:06.020 --> 00:19:30.163
00:19:30.182 --> 00:19:38.582
00:19:38.582 --> 00:19:58.730
00:19:58.730 --> 00:20:03.352
00:20:04.701 --> 00:20:25.423
00:20:25.423 --> 00:20:34.076
00:20:34.076 --> 00:20:46.894
00:20:46.894 --> 00:20:51.577
00:20:51.577 --> 00:20:53.880
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:55.481
00:20:55.481 --> 00:20:59.737
00:20:59.737 --> 00:21:03.288
00:21:03.288 --> 00:21:04.710
00:21:04.710 --> 00:21:06.192
00:21:06.192 --> 00:21:07.634
00:21:07.634 --> 00:21:10.798
00:21:10.798 --> 00:21:13.340
00:21:13.340 --> 00:21:21.471
00:21:21.471 --> 00:21:32.472
00:21:32.472 --> 00:21:35.134
00:21:35.134 --> 00:21:44.009
00:21:44.724 --> 00:21:58.554
00:21:58.554 --> 00:22:03.931
00:22:03.931 --> 00:22:06.817
00:22:06.817 --> 00:22:23.700
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:26.605
00:22:26.605 --> 00:22:34.670
00:22:35.992 --> 00:22:37.295
00:22:37.295 --> 00:22:43.511
00:22:43.511 --> 00:22:52.458
00:22:53.585 --> 00:23:04.893
00:23:04.893 --> 00:23:14.671
00:23:14.671 --> 00:23:15.673
00:23:17.115 --> 00:23:20.127
00:23:20.127 --> 00:23:21.290
00:23:21.290 --> 00:23:23.777
00:23:23.777 --> 00:23:43.272
00:23:43.272 --> 00:23:55.314
00:23:55.484 --> 00:24:02.594
00:24:02.594 --> 00:24:11.372
00:24:11.372 --> 00:24:14.696
00:24:14.696 --> 00:24:21.039
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:28.708
00:24:28.708 --> 00:24:32.477
00:24:32.477 --> 00:24:40.846
00:24:42.470 --> 00:24:48.306
00:24:48.306 --> 00:24:52.032
00:24:52.032 --> 00:24:54.498
00:24:54.498 --> 00:24:55.358
00:24:55.358 --> 00:25:01.832
00:25:01.832 --> 00:25:03.395
00:25:03.395 --> 00:25:09.645
00:25:09.645 --> 00:25:10.734
00:25:10.734 --> 00:25:12.655
00:25:12.655 --> 00:25:12.983
00:25:12.983 --> 00:25:15.420
00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:17.842
00:25:17.922 --> 00:25:27.057
00:25:27.057 --> 00:25:28.692
00:25:28.692 --> 00:25:30.936
00:25:30.936 --> 00:25:31.396
00:25:31.396 --> 00:25:32.258
00:25:32.258 --> 00:25:36.482
00:25:36.482 --> 00:25:39.771
00:25:39.771 --> 00:25:43.465
00:25:44.827 --> 00:25:48.332
00:25:48.332 --> 00:25:51.575
00:25:51.575 --> 00:25:56.740
00:25:56.740 --> 00:26:13.111
00:26:14.327 --> 00:26:26.596
00:26:26.596 --> 00:26:28.992
00:26:28.992 --> 00:26:30.893
00:26:30.893 --> 00:26:32.767
00:26:32.767 --> 00:26:33.548
00:26:33.548 --> 00:26:34.391
00:26:34.391 --> 00:26:36.095
00:26:36.095 --> 00:26:38.160
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.126
00:26:39.126 --> 00:26:41.071
00:26:41.071 --> 00:26:46.048
00:26:46.048 --> 00:26:56.573
00:26:57.144 --> 00:27:07.990
00:27:09.565 --> 00:27:22.054
00:27:22.054 --> 00:27:29.576
00:27:29.576 --> 00:27:39.328
00:27:39.328 --> 00:27:58.165
00:27:58.165 --> 00:28:04.288
00:28:04.288 --> 00:28:12.915
00:28:14.726 --> 00:28:16.132
00:28:16.132 --> 00:28:17.711
00:28:17.711 --> 00:28:22.256
00:28:22.785 --> 00:28:29.637