What's The Most Important Thing in School Counseling?

School Counselors in Behavior Interventions

Hey there , school counselor , welcome back to the School for School Counselors podcast . So glad that you're here again . I feel like I say that every week , but I'm just so happy and excited that you're with me this week . Hey , what do you think is the most important thing that you can do as a school counselor ? We have so many roles and responsibilities , right . We have academic concerns , we have social , emotional concerns , we help with behavior . We do individual counseling , small group counseling , all kinds of things on our campuses . We're team leaders . We even do a lot of stuff that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with school counseling . But out of all of that , out of the alphabet soup of all of our responsibilities , what do you think is the number one thing that school counselors need to be focusing on ? We're going to talk about that in this episode coming up .

First , I want to share with you a really cool review that we received for the podcast here very lately . This came from Camilla M and they titled their review Spot On . They went on to say I am so thankful for this podcast . I've been a school counselor for 16 years , but I find this podcast validating , empowering and so helpful . So much of it resonates with me and I learn new ideas that are so useful . Please keep making them . Oh , camilla M , I am so humbled by your review . I am just bamboozled every time I see folks with significant school counseling experience coming by and being so kind as to let us know that we're making an impact in their work . So often we think about podcasts and education being for our new school counselors , but , as we all know , we're learning and growing every day . We're all trying to get better and better every day that we're serving students on campus , and so your review means so much . Thank you so much for taking the time to submit that . Hey , if you haven't submitted a review for the podcast yet , what are you waiting for ? I would love to see your thoughts and takeaways on some of our recent episodes . When I was sitting in this room by myself looking out the window , talking to the squirrels and the birds outside , it's invigorating sometimes to hear that there are other folks on the other side of this microphone listening and appreciating the information that's going out . So thanks again .

All right , so this week's episode came out of an interesting kind of juxtaposition of ideas . We just held a masterclass in our School for School Counselors Mastermind that focused on tiered behavior interventions , and the reason we held that masterclass was because so many of our School Counselor Masterminders are struggling with behavior on their campuses . And as we started to really look around and keep our eyes and ears open , we discovered that it wasn't just us , it's everywhere . It seems like school counselors all over the country , and sometimes even the world , are really struggling with escalated student behaviors . We seem to be seeing more significant behavior concerns . We seem to be seeing some that are a little bit trickier to unravel and we're seeing a surge right now , just anecdotally , in the younger grades on campuses elementary schools , pre-kindergarten , kindergarten and first grade . Those clusters of students seem to be struggling significantly as compared to previous years . We've started to develop some hypotheses about that . We're kind of diving down some rabbit holes of investigation , but unfortunately the research just isn't there yet .

So we decided to really take an intensive look at tiered behavior interventions . What can we do to help on campus manage these behavior concerns ? What are School Counselors' roles and responsibilities ? And one of the really interesting things that came out of that master class was recognizing the fact that the majority of evidence-based behavior interventions are happening at the tier one level . All right , no real surprise there , but that these interventions are typically teacher-based . So these are interventions that are happening real time in tiers one and two in the classroom environment , and that often our role is a consultative role , it's a supportive role for teachers . Sometimes it's a teaching role , it's modeling what those interventions look like , what those behavior approaches can look like in a classroom when , nothing for nothing . A lot of our teachers are coming out of teacher prep programs without a clear and fundamental understanding of classroom management . They know their academic content , they know how to intervene , they know how to read data sometimes , but they don't understand how to establish strong classroom management and strong behavior intervention .

So in the course of that conversation I also mentioned that , contrary to a lot of folks in the school counseling world , I'm starting to envision the role of a school counselor a little bit differently . I think this is being driven by a couple of things . Number one is just the skyrocketing needs of students on our campuses . I think we're gonna look back in five , 10 years and just say , oh my goodness , I can't believe I was working through that . When we start to see all of the data coming out about the concerns post COVID , we're really going to start to identify how challenging this work is for us .

Right now , and on top of these escalating concerns , we have the school counselor to student ratios that are coming down in some areas of the country but for the most part , are remaining pretty high . So we know that the recommended student to counselor ratio is 250 to one , but unfortunately , the true national average this comes from the 2021-2022 school year , which is the most current information we have the national average was 408 to one , so not looking so great there . Then we have some states that are very high . Indiana was at 694 to one , arizona was at 651 to one , minnesota was at 570 to one and Utah 516 to one . We've got some very high ratios . As a matter of fact , there are only two states that come in below the recommended ratio . Those were New Hampshire and Vermont . Everyone else was either right at or substantially above the recommended student to school counselor ratio .

Now why is that important ? Because when you have more students , the opportunity to do targeted , individualized interventions decreases . It's harder to get to all of those students . I saw a conceptualization the other day that mentioned my school counselor to student ratio is 450 to one . That means I have 450 students competing for my attention each and every day and we know many of you out there have substantially large student to school counselor ratios . Speaking for myself , I'm above 800 to one .

I rarely talk about my role here on the podcast specifically , but I think it's worth mentioning that I do have experience in these large caseload numbers and I know many of you are carrying caseloads even higher than that . So as we have more students that we're responsible for , the less opportunities we're gonna have for one-on-one intervention and one-on-one counseling just because there's so many of them . And it's disheartening too because we know we wanna get to all of them , but it's just a matter of being one person and a sea of many students . So for that reason I do foresee a shift in school counseling to more of a consultancy role on a lot of campuses where , if we're not able to get super targeted and intentional with students on a one-to-one or one-to-small group basis , we can move into that consultancy role and we can begin to advise teachers in best practices on campus that can support social , emotional and behavior concerns . Now , interestingly enough , I am not the only one that has this opinion .

In one of my favorite books on school counseling it is just so interesting it's called Strengths-Based School Counseling . It is by John Galassi and Patrick Acos . It is , admittedly , a little dated it was published in 2008 , but it has lots of interesting ideas in here , and one of the things that they talk about on page 83 is that one of the major shifts in contemporary school counseling is toward a more indirect services model of school counseling and that , while that is a clear component in our Ask a National model , that the 80% direct service charge appears inconsistent with current trends towards a greater emphasis on indirect services . What they're saying there is they believed that we might need to modify that national model to really reflect the consultative nature that some school counselors have to have on campus . Emily Goodman-Scott , who is an important figure in school counseling , has also said that school counselors are uniquely positioned to expand prevention efforts through consultation to teachers and school staff .

Maurice Elias says that we ought to be the quarterback of the team . We ought to be the one kind of taking the ball and deciding who we're gonna pass it to in interventions on campus . So it's an interesting thought . I think it's in direct contrast to the way a lot of people see the Ask a National model and its implementation . It's certainly something to consider , especially if you feel like you're losing your mind trying to run enough lessons and small groups and parent phone calls and intervention groups to meet the needs of six , seven , eight or 900 students in a week or even in a day . So it kind of led me down a rabbit hole . If we're looking at school counseling a little bit differently and this is my opinion and the opinion of some other school counselor thinkers in the world it doesn't by any means mean it's the correct one . But , just for the sake of argument , if we're changing the way that we view school counselors as less of a one-to-one service and more of a consultative role on campus , what is the one most important thing that we can do or say to facilitate student growth ? It's pretty cool when you think about it , as we step into consultation on campus , how many more students we can impact through our role . Instead of scrambling to find maybe two or three small groups of six or seven students each week , now we're able to impact all the students in a teacher's classroom throughout an entire week just through the consultative nature of the relationship . That's pretty cool when you think about it and it quickly becomes exponential .

Build Relationships With Teachers

A study by Blair Cholivar , emily Goodman-Scott , antoinette Thomas and Jennifer Cook in 2016 was titled Teachers Perceptions and Experiences Consulting with School Counselors A Qualitative Study . In that study , which was published by ASCA , the authors concluded that the single most important thing that school counselors can implement on their campuses to elicit positive changes are relationships . Cue the gasp of surprise . You know this innately . You know this to be true . This is what led most of you into the school counseling field in the first place .

I often say , when I'm working with aspiring school counselors on interview skills and really targeting in and honing in on the reasons that they want to enter this field , the reason they want to work as a school counselor 99.9% of the time it's relationships . We even have a rule in our Get the Job program that says you cannot mention building relationships with students , not because it's not a great idea , but because it is so often repeated that it almost sounds cliche in job interviews . We have to come up with some different ways to communicate that same idea that I digress . This study through Cholivar I hope I'm saying that name right and colleagues , including Emily Goodman Scott , mentions that there are some key relationships that need to be built on campus . First , relationships with teachers , and as I read through their description of what good relationships with teachers look like , it struck me that basically , what we're doing is building a no-like-trust relationship . Now , those take time . Those are not something that just happened , and I think this is where a lot of beginning school counselors get a little bit confused .

We show up on campus and we expect other people to automatically recognize our expertise , our authority and our desire to make a meaningful change . For students . That doesn't always happen and a lot of times it's because they have not yet had the opportunity to invest the time into no-like-trust . If we can preemptively establish these relationships with our staff , if we can give them the time and opportunity to get to know us , then the additional time and opportunity to decide that they like us and then even more time and opportunity to decide that they trust us . Now we're cooking with gas . Now we're in a place to make something happen . We can walk in and collaborate and consult with teachers and they're going to pick up what we're laying down . They're going to be excited to try what we suggest because they've decided that they like us and they trust us .

That is a journey that does not happen instantaneously . No matter how awesome you are , they'll always be those people that you instantly click with , that they automatically get you . But there are going to be others on your campus that you're going to have to work a little bit harder with . So keep that in mind and you might even just kind of self-assess in your relationships on campus throughout this week . What stage are you at with each person that you're talking to ? Are you at the no stage , the like stage , or are you at the trust stage ? It's an interesting experiment . For sure .

Teachers reported in this study that they really enjoyed the validation that they got from consulting with their school counselor . They appreciated the evidence-based ideas that the school counselor was bringing to the table , sort of like our master class we just had in our mastermind today . So if you're not in that mastermind , you need to jump in , because I'm telling you we're pouring good stuff into that all the time . It's almost too big , too much information . I don't know if that could really be a thing , but it's quickly growing that direction and I think also we're in a unique position to facilitate solution-focused discussions with teachers . I think this is something that we don't talk enough about in school counseling , but how can we facilitate those solution-focused approaches with our teachers when they show up and say oh my gosh , I'm so frustrated with Bobby because he can't stay in his seat . He can't stop making noises . He falls out of his chair about 20 times a day . I don't know what I'm going to do with that kid . To be able to guide that teacher in a more constructive , solution-focused narrative . Sometimes it can make all the difference , above and beyond any sort of interventions we can offer . Sometimes the solution-focused tack can be the most powerful .

In the paper by Cholivar and alumni they had a quote from a teacher who said MrX comes around every morning and says hello , you could always grab him if you wanted to . They were talking about the importance of being available , being accessible to staff , not requiring them to make appointments or anything like that . But you know it's that dreaded . Hey , do you have a minute right , or can I ask you a quick question ? Sometimes when we're in a hurry we cringe a little bit when we hear that , but it's so important to be available to our staff .

We have something on my campus that we call rounds morning rounds and it's really , really cool and I cannot take credit for this . I learned this from my amazing principal , but every single morning , my administrative team makes rounds and they pop into every single classroom . They'll either peek in the window or crack the door open and just say , good morning , I'm glad you're here . Good morning , how are you doing ? Just putting their face into the classroom and making an intentional effort to connect with their staff ? Oh , my goodness , the benefits I have seen from that approach are just mind blowing . Something so simple but so meaningful , and I love to accompany my team on these rounds because I think it pays the same dividends for me . It makes me accessible to my staff . It gives them the opportunity to pop their head out and say , hey , can I come down and visit with you on my conference period , I'm worried about something . Or to be able to say , hey , have you been able to get so-and-so's parent ? I'm really worried about them , or whatever the situation is . It's really nice for them to have that access and feel like they have it pretty quickly .

We can also help equip our teachers with new perspectives trauma informed perspectives , an understanding of mental health , how our brains and our emotions work , what's developmentally appropriate for students . It never fails to amaze me how often we get brand new teachers on our campus that have no understanding of student developmental stages , and so we kind of have to go in and guide them through that . And it's OK , I'm glad to do it . It's a new perspective and a new understanding that I can bring to our staff . But one of the key components of this is making sure that you're building your school counseling fluency . You have to be able to have these types of conversations often enough that you can talk about them just off the cuff . You don't need any preparation , you don't need to go dig through your library of resources , you don't need to go refresh your memory or say I'll get back to you on that , you've got it at the tip of your tongue . That's fundamentally the reason that we built our School for School Counselors , mastermind and I know I've mentioned it several times in this episode . But y'all , I truly am a believer in the transformative power of what we're building over there , because we're consulting and collaborating with each other . But we're also building that fluency . We're building the opportunity to speak off the cuff about the issues that are going to come up on campus . It makes you look like the expert and the authority that you are and that enables you to get the buy-in from your staff that you need to do this meaningful consultative work .

Build Strong Relationships With Students

So , number one our relationships with our teachers . Number two relationships with students . Now , when we think about building relationships with students , we often think about rapport , we often think about , you know , building just kind of a nice congenial relationship . We say hi to everybody in the hallway . They smile and wave at us . Man , we've done a great job of building student relationships . But I'm talking about going beyond that . I'm talking about being highly visible in common areas where students are in the hallways during passing periods , in the office , when tardy students are coming in getting their slips . I'm not handing out the tardy slips , but I am saying hi and establishing that relationship . Man , I'm glad you made it . I bet it was a tough morning this morning . I'm glad you came , that kind of stuff .

And as I told my masterminders today , I want to be the person on campus that others call when they can't seem to make an in with a student Picture , a student who has sequestered themselves in a hallway somewhere . They're refusing to go into the classroom . They have their hoodie pulled down over their face , there are folks standing around trying to talk to them , trying to reason with them , and the student is just not responding . They're not moving , they're just completely unwilling to engage in anything that's going on in that moment . That's when I want my campus to call me . I want to be the one that can show up in the middle of all these negotiations , in the middle of all this opposition . I want to be able to show up and just stand by the student and say , hey , bud , why don't you come with me for a minute ? Let's go cool off and have them immediately turn to walk with me . Now that doesn't happen , because I'm just amazing . Does it really have anything to do with me Other than I've worked to intentionally establish these relationships ?

I have been around these students and talked with these students and been a part of these students' days , not only when things are going wrong , but also when they're going right , and that's a huge deposit into their emotional bank . When I come to collect on that deposit nine times out of 10 , I'm gonna get it because I've been very , very intentional in those relationships . I also think a great way that we can not only invest in relationships with students but model this for our teachers is really getting very invested and knowledgeable in child-centered counseling approaches and , as you hear me say that some of you were thinking elementary school , but I promise you these translate all the way up . If we can get really good in these child-centered approaches , bring them into the classrooms . When we're supporting students for brief periods of time , not only is that gonna be dynamite for the student , they're going to feel free to engage in the class , to participate without fear of judgment there are so many things that go into this child-centered approach but also , if we've done a good job of building that no-like-and-trust relationship with the teacher , they're going to be more apt to be watching and really soaking in what it is we're doing , and so we're gonna have the potential to change an entire classroom dynamic if we play our cards right . And that's super , super exciting to me . I think . Last , we need to develop strong relationships with our school families , and this goes beyond coffee with a counselor . It goes beyond sending newsletters home or having a presentation at a PTA meeting . What I'm talking about is kind of multifaceted . First it is breaking the ice and maybe connecting the teacher to the family , when maybe the teacher is intimidated to do that , maybe they don't know how to approach the conversation , maybe they're worried about hurting a parent's feelings by having to report what's going on at school or feeling bad about having to deliver information they don't necessarily want to have to talk about . We can be the bridge between those two parties so that they can build an effective relationship between them . They'll be able to have constructive conversations in the future . We are also great at modeling hard conversations . We are really , really good at showing teachers how to establish rapport .

I had a co-worker in my office the other day . We were calling a parent and we both kind of needed to visit with them and I said so let's call together . She said this parent is never going to answer the phone and I said oh , let's see about that . So we called . I used my tried and true method on this parent in their voicemail box of getting them to call me back and , sure enough , two or three minutes later , tada , the phone was ringing and it was the parent and we had a super delightful and productive conversation . When we got done , this new co-worker looked at me and said man , I feel like I just got a master class in parent communication . And I just smiled at him and said well , it just comes with practice . It just comes with time and practice . You're going to get there , but it was a great opportunity to model for them what those constructive conversations can look like .

As a matter of fact , in our master class today I added family communication as an effective tier two behavior intervention , because some of those students may be moving on up to tier three and if they move up to tier three and you start to have to have really hard conversations perhaps about manifestation , determination , disciplinary placements at another campus , perhaps mental health diagnoses , those kinds of things you want to have already established good rapport with those parents before those conversations ever have to begin . They have to know you , they have to decide that they like you and that they trust you , that you have their students' best interests at heart , that you're not judging them when their student is not meeting the expectation and that you've genuinely tried your best to help get the student to a better place before you get to that point of tier three intervention . It's super important . So relationship , relationship , relationship the most important thing about school counseling . I'm leaning on this study and this article pretty hard because I think it is just such a great message for all of us . That number one building relationships is paramount If you feel like you are struggling , if you feel like you are overworked . If you feel like you are overstressed , take a breath , step back a minute and find ways to focus on that relationship , because not only is it going to pay you huge dividends , but it's going to soothe your heart , because it's the reason that you got into this work in the first place .

Second , it's important to be highly visible and highly available . Others around you value that , especially as our patients and attention spans get shorter and shorter and shorter . It doesn't mean that you need to be at everyone's back and call , but at least give them the opportunity to say hey , can I catch you later ? I have something to ask . Be visible , be available .

Building Relationships in School Counseling

All right .

I hope this gave you some food for thought as you start this week in your amazing role as a school counselor on your campus . It seems so simple , but it is actually so profound . As we move into this consultancy model of school counseling that many of us are being forced into , whether we like it or not , due to our school counselor , to student ratios , it's nice to know that we have our thumb on what really works , what really makes this meaningful and what we know from our clinical counseling . Training is most important and that's the relationship . So , if nothing else this week , go out , build some amazing relationships . I know you're great at it , and then I'll see you again soon for another episode of the School for School Counselors podcast . Take care .